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But for his entire career, Rupert Murdoch has taken the conversation in a direction that punctures the elites the way he thinks about it, punctures the elites and it scandalizes pop and he makes a lot of money doing that and this is really no different.

STELTER: Yeah. Do you have an impression of where he sees the business going? I know he’s not going to reveal his secrets to you about that. But looking at the tea leaves, the company moving further to the right, these stories about Lachlan maybe not wanting to stay involved.

We know the more liberal son James is waiting on the sidelines, waiting on his turn. He hopes to take over some day in the event of Rupert’s death. He hopes to take over and on his view remove the outrageous programming on Fox News. ANDIEZ Dachshund Dog and Girl Reading Book Poster Time Spent with Dog Book and Wine Poster Home Living Decor Poster

Is that possible or is that a liberal fantasy, Sarah?

ELLISON: Well, we’re going to see a lot of — this is something people inside fox have been watching for a long time. No one loves the news business more than Rupert Murdoch, none of his children. And, so, regardless of what happens, what Rupert’s succession drama is going to bring is a moment of reckoning for Fox. And whether it’s Lachlan, whether it’s James, whether it’s someone

else, it’s going to bring big changes to that network and we’re just going to have to see how that shakes out.

STELTER: Right. Nobody knows when or how that could happen. It is just something on the horizon. We don’t know how distant it is.

But it is noticeable these stories are pointing toward some change to the empire. I mean, look, to see why our politics is so poisoned and polarized, you just have to look at what FOX talk shows prioritized. This is a great example in the past week. I watched coronavirus denialism on Fox.

I watched QAnon flirtation, immigration fear-mongering, culture war desperation, and I’m sure you saw this, too, dozens of segments about the Dr. Seuss brand shelving some books that I had never even heard of. Have you heard of the books they’re getting rid off?

And then some people started hoarding other Seuss books that were totally unrelated, maybe uncancel culture is out of control now, and the story lines that Fox selects matter because the GOP follows Murdoch’s lead. That’s why this is important. That’s why House Republican Leader Kevin McCarthy was reading “green eggs and ham” while Democrats were passing a stimulus bill.

TV is not reacting to D.C. D.C. Is reacting to TV. And I wonder, Diana, how you view this as a former Fox News employee. Was it like this four years ago when you were at Fox?

FALZONE: I will tell you that, as a journalist covering it, that what was going on during the Trump administration, staffers were asking, are they working for state TV or are they working for propaganda network? There was always something to be outraged out.

And I think the blue print that Roger Ailes left behind was one of sensationalism and click bait. He knew how to play upon the vulnerabilities and the fears of his audience. And what we’re seeing now is that staffers are telling me that they are digging in further right. They are digging in further into sensationalism and they are really looking to elicit a response from their audience.

So this idea on the war on Christmas, the war on cancel culture, they are trying to get back to their ratings so that they’re not going to ever see their ratings flounder again to Newsmax or OAN.

STELTER: Yeah, this is entirely driven by ratings. It’s all it’s about. ANDIEZ Dachshund Dog and Girl Reading Book Poster Time Spent with Dog Book and Wine Poster Home Living Decor Poster

And some of the audience is coming back, Oliver, is that fair to say? The viewers who were disappointed in November by the election, they are starting to come back to Fox.

DARCY: Definitely. Fox is seeing somewhat of a rise in their ratings back to maybe normal levels. I thin the bottom line is, this is profitable. The Fox audience wants to see this stuff. This is what the Fox audience wants. And Fox is happy to feed it to them regardless of whether it is harmful for society or good for society or actually informs their viewers.

It’s profitable, and that’s what Fox’s bottom — you know, what seems to drive Fox more than anything is profitability.

STELTER: On the occasion of Rupert’s 90th birthday, Sarah, how does this current, you know, narrative about, culture war drama on Fox, Dr. Seuss all day long, how does this relate to Rupert’s career in his entire lifetime?

ELLISON: Well, I would just say that one of the things that Fox and Rupert Murdoch have been able to capitalize on is the culture wars. It’s the most unifying element that you can find in the Republican Party. Even among independents.

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